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mika
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
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 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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would anyone care to help me see the differences amongst those words, please? thanks so much.
i understand that "esperar" means "to expect/wait" originally, and from what i've read somewhere is that the word "oxalá" is derived from an Arabic word, "inshalah" meaning "se Deus quiser"...
when i want to say, for instance, "i hope you'll get better soon" do i always have to use "desejar" and say,
"desejo-lhe as melhoras"?
i don't reckon using "oxalá" in this case is appropriate, but what about other options like "esperar" or "tomara"(maybe not this one either) - are they interchangeable?
Obrigada and
a Joyful New Year to you all. |
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pitombas
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:50 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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| 'desejo-lhe as melhoras' é mais formal e culto, mas todos são usados com o mesmo sentido e são corretos. 'Tomara' e 'oxalá' são as formas mais usadas, informais, vulgares. |
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mika
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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| pitombas wrote: | | 'desejo-lhe as melhoras' é mais formal e culto, mas todos são usados com o mesmo sentido e são corretos. 'Tomara' e 'oxalá' são as formas mais usadas, informais, vulgares. |
Muito obrigada, Pit! :wink:
what about "Estiomo as melhoras"... does it sound less formal i wonder? |
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pitombas
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:12 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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[quote="mika"] | pitombas wrote: |
what about "Estiomo as melhoras"... does it sound less formal i wonder? |
Disponha sempre  ... 'Estimo suas melhoras' é mais formal e culto e meio estilo antigo. |
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Márcio Osório
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 358
Location: Jaboatão dos Guararapes-PE, Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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| mika wrote: | <Snipped part which Pitombas dealt successfully with>
i don't reckon using "oxalá" in this case is appropriate, but what about other options like "esperar" or "tomara"(maybe not this one either) - are they interchangeable? |
Yes, you can use oxalá and tomara interchangeably.
You use oxalá to strongly desire that something happens or occurs. As much as you would tomara. Both words mean, "May whoever or whichever we address to perform the action the interlocutor wishes he, she or it performs."
Oxalá may optionally appear with or without a que.
But tomara only appears necessarily with a que.
Ex.:
1. "Oxalá que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
2. "Tomara que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
3. "Oxalá Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
4. "Tomara que Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
"
1 & 2 = "May God give you peace and love."
3 & 4 = "May Pitombas give us some pitombas for us to eat!"
Sometimes people drop both intial Oxalá and Tomara. Like this:
"Que Deus lhe dê paz e amor." meaning the same as above. But stating "Que Pitombas nos dê..." without the Tomara sounds unusual. As a matter of fact, it will sound as though coming from the mouth of an extremely mass- or oath-concerned priest. So you would best use these in reference to God.
| Quote: | | Obrigada and a Joyful New Year to you all. |
Oxalá Deus dê ao mundo mais paz e harmonia! (E Ele sempre lhe deu!)
Tomara que Deus dê ao mundo mais paz e harmonia! (E Ele sempre lhe deu!)
Can you figure it out?
Last edited by Márcio Osório on Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NegaoSafado
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Oxala = hopefully
Desejo,espero = I hope, wish, expect
Tomara = I presume
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mika
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:21 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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Pit, Márcio e NegaoSafado - muito obrigada pela sua resposta!
| Márcio Osório wrote: | You use oxalá to strongly desire that something happens or occurs. As much as you would tomara. Both words mean, "May whoever or whichever we address to perform the action the interlocutor wishes he, she or it performs."
Oxalá may optionally appear with or without a que.
But tomara only appears necessarily with a que.
Ex.:
1. "Oxalá que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
2. "Tomara que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
3. "Oxalá Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
4. "Tomara que Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
"
1 & 2 = "May God give you peace and love."
3 & 4 = "May Pitombas give us some pitombas for us to eat!"
Sometimes people drop both intial Oxalá and Tomara. Like this:
"Que Deus lhe dê paz e amor." meaning the same as above. But stating "Que Pitombas nos dê..." without the Tomara sounds unusual. As a matter of fact, it will sound as though coming from the mouth of an extremely mass- or oath-concerned priest. So you would best use these in reference to God.
| Quote: | | Obrigada and a Joyful New Year to you all. |
Oxalá Deus dê ao mundo mais paz e harmonia! (E Ele sempre lhe deu!)
Tomará que Deus dê ao mundo mais paz e harmonia! (E Ele sempre lhe deu!)
Can you figure it out? |
| Quote: | Oxalá may optionally appear with or without a que.
But tomara only appears necessarily with a que.
Ex.:
1. "Oxalá que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
2. "Tomara que Deus lhe dê paz e amor".
3. "Oxalá Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
4. "Tomara que Pitombas nos dê algumas pitombas pra gente chupar!"
"
1 & 2 = "May God give you peace and love."
3 & 4 = "May Pitombas give us some pitombas for us to eat!" |
yes, i noticed this and was wondering why... thanks for your explanation, Márcio. |
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Márcio Osório
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 358
Location: Jaboatão dos Guararapes-PE, Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| De nada. Oxalá faça mais perguntas; oxalá respondamos a elas. |
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Puro Híbrido
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 482
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:35 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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| mika wrote: | | i don't reckon using "oxalá" in this case is appropriate, but what about other options like "esperar" or "tomara"(maybe not this one either) - are they interchangeable? |
I agree with what everyone else wrote. Just don't say "espero-lhe as melhoras", or "tomara-lhe as melhoras". 
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Un peu plus à l'ouest... |
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mika
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:53 am Post subject: Re: esperar, desejar, oxalá, tomara?? |
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| Puro Híbrido wrote: | | mika wrote: | | i don't reckon using "oxalá" in this case is appropriate, but what about other options like "esperar" or "tomara"(maybe not this one either) - are they interchangeable? |
I agree with what everyone else wrote. Just don't say "espero-lhe as melhoras", or "tomara-lhe as melhoras". |
aha, you got back at laaast!  |
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PeterB
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Belgium/UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Mika,
I don't know if the others will agree, but in my opinion "oxalá" is out of fashion these days. I myself never use it, either in writing or speaking, and the same applies to everyone I know, that is in Rio. Perhaps it's more used elsewhere. |
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Márcio Osório
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 358
Location: Jaboatão dos Guararapes-PE, Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, most native Brazilian Portuguese speakers would not use oxalá but would sing instead, "Tomara que chova três dias sem parar bla bla bla" (May the rain fall for three days non-stop). You cannot imagine them singing, "Oxalá chova..." |
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mika
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Peter e Márcio -
thanks for the reply.
well, from what i just read in a book "tomara" is used in northern Portugal and Brasil, while "oxalá" is more frequently heard in Lisboa and the south of Portugal - due to its Arabic derivation. is it true?
so, you're saying that in Brasil "oxalá" is used neither writing or speaking/singing? |
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PeterB
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Belgium/UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Mika,
"Tomara" is very widely used in Brazil.
I have seen "oxalá" in older Brazilian magazines. It's probably still part of official Brazilian vocabulary, but it's simply not very used anymore. I'd say that most Brazilians in their twenties or so probably wouldn't even recognize it. |
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Puro Híbrido
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 482
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| mika wrote: | | well, from what i just read in a book "tomara" is used in northern Portugal and Brasil, while "oxalá" is more frequently heard in Lisboa and the south of Portugal - due to its Arabic derivation. is it true? |
I suspect that this is an oversimplification and the use of both words is more homogenous throughout the country than that, but, to tell you the truth, I don't know enough to confirm or deny what you read.
"Tomara", as far as I know, is less common than "oxalá" in Portugal, except in some idioms like "Tomara eu..." (= If only I...).
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